When will we see NHL hockey again on time -- reporter Paul Hamilton's with us now from WGR Sports Radio 550. We're looking at that NHL hockey lockout and whether mediation today might bring games back anytime soon good morning Paul. Grand Ayatollah. Okay what do you think are you optimistic is the end of this -- and site. Known not at all. -- because. It will be willing to listen to it that they still have what they feel they have in other that that the media agree with them fine if that doesn't well. Yeah also brought him in pastime. And it went to mediation and then there wrap up camp -- the season pretty quick afterwards so. They're willing to listen about it that's that's a good. But as far as not getting something done because -- -- I still think the owners are pretty -- their position and they're just -- to -- -- agrees with them. It interesting calls it. You know it's a -- out the owner's lockout the players yet when you ask fans about the -- out more than complaining right now the players and the owners. That the bank has this Susan that that they have the players that they understand that it's really right now doesn't matter if they're right or wrong. They're gonna have to negotiated off and now -- off for the owners gave them and until they figure that out. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- and the -- and if the other league they're the ones running so. Does -- these proposals the players put the other can be the best proposals ever known to man. -- and so they figure out that they have to negotiate with all the government owners also are. This is gonna go on this year it'll go one next year it'll go on until they figure that out and who's right wrong really doesn't matter here that's just the fact of life from the fact of what's that what's happening here. And in the meantime every game they don't play they're not getting paychecks -- No they won't get into -- through October but that's over with now. So now they're not getting any money except the guys the role in Europe of course. But they're the ones that are still back in buffalo and whatever city they may be caving in or whatever. You know they've million. They'd better have figured out what Donald Fehr has been telling them for a couple years now are as long as he's been associated with that the you better prepare for this which you know how that goes into young kids who do you think they -- -- that would much. What about the other side of the equation what have -- lost without games. Well don't forget they're not paying anybody. And that's the thing big expense. So you have losing. I'll read a lot of owners are doing is laying off employees out of Minnesota Wild employees is just came out yesterday than have to take pay cuts by the end of this month of -- not done -- They haven't talked about lame but he got the Buffalo Sabres have not laid anybody off -- Quite a few employees around the National Hockey League have been laid off. Yeah Paul Ryan Miller was quoted over the weekend talking about. Decertification. Is that just him or is there a groundswell. There talking about it but looking into that now if that happens that that'll just absolutely be -- season and that's always a last ditch effort. And the NHL comes out as well let's not do anything I mean that they think that's gonna work or whatever. Brad Pitt is it is something that at least that. They're talking about whether they get that fire and I don't know. So how does this and what do you see happening. There's a possibility Davis ignored the next year. -- I hate to say that you have two very hard headed men going at it here and they're basically playing a game of chicken right now and neither one seems to wanna blanked the NHL. Jeremy Jacobs than. The -- And generally -- monopoly they came back offense came back last year this isn't good. Will be back occupant five you know so -- I don't know matte -- what. -- people come back but I have -- they all well. And I think there's a lot more a lot more people now -- war angry about what's going on them when it happened last time. Share it and now the games to this point are canceled through December 15 as -- during that. How soon before they. -- ended January house so before -- script the entire season. They they waited until February last time I don't think the wait that -- -- time. Maybe one more cancellation of games and I think the cancellation. That would be -- these and so. I -- -- I think. You know biscuits ended January I think that's really when this season isn't a lot of danger and whether that forces anybody -- blank. I don't know I doubt it now -- these two guys. All right Paul thanks for that I thank. All right that's ball Hamilton long time sabres reporter and her sister station WG -- our Sports Radio five.